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Spring 1996 (4.1)
Pages 54-55, 59
Diplomatic Interview
Azerbaijan's
First Ambassador to the US
Hafiz Pashayev
Interview by Betty Blair
  Photo: Azerbaijan's Ambassador to the U.S.,
Dr. Hafiz Pashayev.
What a coincidence that your
interview (January 26, 1996) comes on a such special day for
Azerbaijan. The Wilson Amendment has just passed in the U.S.
Congress which will finally clear the way for humanitarian assistance
to our refugees.
Does that really mean US
aid can go directly to the Azerbaijani government?
It's still provisional.
The law reads that "if the President determines that humanitarian
assistance provided in Azerbaijan through non-governmental organizations
(NGOs) is not adequately addressing the suffering of the refugees
and internally displaced persons," then the US can direct
aid to the Azerbaijani government. By the decision by the US
Congress is politically very important for us. It's the first
time we have had any reprieve since the "Freedom Support
Act" (Section #907) was passed in 1992.
What's the next step?
We must show President Clinton that in numerous cases humanitarian
assistance from the United States which was funneled through
non-governmental organizations (NGOs) was not very effective.
The Clinton Administration has generally been supportive of Azerbaijan.
They know the situation. We have one million refugees and displaced
people in Azerbaijan in a population of 7.5 million all living
within a geographical area the size of Maine or Austria. There
have been situations, for example, when humanitarian organizations
sponsored by the US could not legally repair leaking roofs of
school buildings where refugees were living because these buildings
belonged to the government.
I know of situations where
refugees didn't have good access to water but NGOs funded through
USAID could not legally dig wells because the Azerbaijani government
owned all the drilling equipment.
I hope that US assistance
will eventually expand into fields such as education, English
language instruction, and education about the democratic process.
When the US Ambassador to Azerbaijan, Richard Kauzlarich, was
here this past spring, he met with members of Congress to try
to persuade them to repeal #907, complaining that "his hands
were tied" in Azerbaijan because of this law.
What was Senator Dole's response
to this legislature for humanitarian aid to Azerbaijan?
Dole's position has
always favored Armenians. Whenever there is an issue between
Azerbaijan or Armenia, Dole has always sided with Armenians.
Recently, he stated again that he would block any attempt to
repeal #907.
Over these past three years
since you've been in Washington, you've dealt quite often with
the Armenians and their Ambassador Shugarian. Do you detect any
difference in their posturing or positioning in relation to the
Karabakh issue?
I believe they're beginning
to realize that it is no longer realistic to speak about Nagorno-Karabakh
as an independent country. They felt differently in 1993. We've
always maintained that Nagorno-Karabakh is part of Azerbaijan
and that territorial boundaries must be respected. It seems they're
beginning to realize that the region must remain under the sovereignty
of Azerbaijan.
What evidence do you see
for these changes in their attitudes?
Well, for example, those
holding "hard-line" positions amongst the Diaspora,
especially in relation to the Dashnaks no longer have any solid
support in the Armenian Republic as the Dashnak Party has been
banned there. As a result, the Diaspora in the US has become
divided over this issue. Dashnaks held unrelenting positions
against both Azerbaijan and Turkey. But these days, it seems
Armenia is ready to cooperate and begin re-establishing relations
with us.
This past October a dinner was held here in Washington which
Armenia's President Ter-Petrossian attended. US Congressional
members, seeking Armenian favor, spoke against Turkey and Azerbaijan.
When Ter-Petrossian addressed the group, he pointed out that
Armenia does not consider Azerbaijan and Turkey as their enemies
and that we should all cooperate. This marks a significant change
in policy.
You're Azerbaijan's first
Ambassador to the United States. What has it been like to establish
an Embassy here?
I'm often asked about
my background before coming to the US. I like to tell people,
"I used to be a scientist-a physicist, and as such, I was
very free in an unfree country (under the Soviet regime). But
now as Ambassador, I'm working in a free country but I'm very
unfree because I'm a governmental official."
It's been a dramatic change for me personally but at the same
time, a great honor to be appointed as the first Ambassador to
the United States and to initiate significant work for the independence
of my country. These are historical moments. Tremendous political
and economic developments are going on in my country of which
we're a very important part. We feel ourselves assisting the
President.
For example, it was our Embassy that initiated the contacts with
World Bank which has now approved special funds for refurbishing
the water supply in Baku. This was one of the greatest needs
in rebuilding our city's infrastructure. Soon Baku will have
reliable access to water which will be of immeasurable benefit
to everyone. I'm immensely proud to have been involved in this
project.
Our work at the Embassy has both an Azerbaijani as well as American
dimension. The United States knew so little about Azerbaijan.
At the same time, Azerbaijan understood so little about the US,
particularly in terms of how the government works. We knew, of
course, that America was a powerful country, but we had no idea
about its structure of government nor about American democracy.
Even now, after three years, many people in Azerbaijan cannot
tell you how American democracy works.
You remember Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski's visit to Azerbaijan in
October 1995. In every meeting he was asked, "Are Americans
blind? Can't they see that the Armenians are the aggressors?
Don't they know that Armenians are occupying our territories?
How is it that Americans are supporting Armenia?" It was
a question that came from everybody-not just uneducated people
but professors and scholars.
What was Brzezinski's reply?
He said that to understand
this phenomenon, you have to know American democracy! Meaning
that Congressional members can easily be influenced in order
to get re-elected.
For me, it has been a challenge to introduce the American reality
to Azerbaijan. During my last trip to Baku (January 1996), I
read many newspapers and realized there is a new generation of
writers and correspondents who are beginning to present American
life and democracy very well. More importantly, they are eager
to know more.
In that sense, I think I would criticize American oil companies.
You know how important public relations work is. Oil companies
in Azerbaijan are not doing a good job in that respect. They
should help us make our people aware. For example, after we signed
the oil contract with the Western Consortium in 1994, Azerbaijanis
expected immediate results-not five or ten years from now. Wrong
expectations disappoint people.
What specifically would you
suggest?
They should work with
our television and newspapers to help make America more well
known in Azerbaijan-to explain what the future might be in Azerbaijan
three to five years from now. I think they should have a one-hour
program on Azerbaijani TV each week. Why not? It would show that
the US is very much cooperating with Azerbaijan.
We're living in a very, very difficult period. Azerbaijanis need
an optimistic view of the future. We Azerbaijanis reside in a
very "tough neighborhood." And if the presence of the
United States were more evident, not only through the pragmatic
business interests, but through more human dimensions, it would
be very helpful-for them and for us.
I know, for example, that many people deeply appreciate how you
are publishing this magazine and introducing Azerbaijan to the
international community. It's very important for Azerbaijanis
to know that they're not alone. That's my point.
How did you find the mood
in Azerbaijan in regard to the future?
In Russia the recent
Parliamentarian Elections showed that many old people wish to
return to the "good old days." But in the case of Azerbaijan,
I believe our people comprehend the difficulties and transition
that is taking place. Since 1990, we have suffered so much just
to gain our independence. The disintegration of the Soviet Union
gave us our independence. It is now that we are having to struggle
and fight to hold onto it.
Independence, however, doesn't hold the same meaning for Russians.
For them, what is independence? To be independent from whom?
But we have suffered so much that even our elderly understand
how bright the future can be if we can manage to overcome our
present difficulties.
Lately, editorials in the
"Washington Times," have suggested that Russia's tendency
towards a "hard-line" foreign policy could again dominate
the entire region again if Republics such as Azerbaijan and Ukraine
yield to it.
Both these countries
have real opportunities to become more and more independent.
The resources and strong desire of people inspire Azerbaijanis;
the size of the country and determination drive Ukraine. The
up-coming June Presidential elections in Russia will be very
determining for the region. If Yeltsin is elected, everything
may go well in terms of US-Russia relations. If somebody else
wins, it may be different. But this is nothing new for us. We've
always lived with these uncertainties.
Tell me about the Azerbaijani
Diaspora. Are they involved in helping the Republic?
There are many Azerbaijanis
from Iran who are living in the United States though very few
have settled here from the Republic itself. Many are highly educated
and hold mainstream positions. Though not very well organized
right now, I believe that a Diaspora will gradually develop.
Generally speaking though, I believe that the character of Azerbaijanis
hasn't changed much. Those living in Iran (25+ million) are very
much like those living in the Republic (7.5 million).
In what ways?
Language, culture, traditions
and music. And in respect to the idea that Azerbaijan really
deserves to be independent. Many of these Azerbaijanis living
abroad seem eager to help the Republic achieve real independence.
As more and more business opportunities become available, the
economy will become the driving force for their involvement.
Quite a few Iranian Azerbaijanis
from the US are starting to visit the Republic these days, aren't
they?
Especially Azerbaijani
young men living here go to the Republic to find brides. They
call, requesting visas to get married in Baku. Traditionally,
people have relatives on both sides. It's not uncommon for someone
in Baku to say, "I'm Tabrizi" or for Azerbaijanis in
Tabriz to say "I'm Bakui," indicating that their relatives
originated from the other side.
But now, I see that they are identifying themselves more as Azerbaijanis
and, in that sense, I believe your magazine has been very instrumental.
In the United States, there had never been any publication available
about Azerbaijan before you started. It's such a fine publication
for people who want to know more about our country. It's becoming
a catalyst for Azerbaijanis.
Our primary goal for the
magazine is to reach out to people (primarily Western) who never
had a chance to learn about Azerbaijan because so little was
available in English. But I sense, as you do, that Azerbaijanis
living all over the world are starting to take more pride in
their heritage. I'd like to think that our magazine is playing
a role.
It encourages Azerbaijanis to
return to their cultural roots. I should tell you that your magazine
has now become so popular in the United States that when I go
to the State Department to visit Strobe Talbott (Deputy Secretary
of State, Warren Christopher) or Jim Collins (responsible for
the Newly Independent States-NIS), I always see "Azerbaijan
International" lying there on the table beside "Time,"
"Newsweek" and other magazines.
Maybe they know you're coming
and just put it out there for you! (jokingly)
No, no, it's always there in
the waiting room in the State Department.
I'd like to think that our
magazine contributes to understanding the complexity of the issues
and trends that Azerbaijanis are experiencing during this difficult
transitional period. For so many years, Azerbaijan was unknown
to us in the West. Producing this magazine has become an exciting
journey of discovery for us and, hopefully, for others as well.
But now that you've lived in the West perhaps longer than any
other Azerbaijani diplomat, in what ways do you think Azerbaijanis
and Americans can benefit from each other's culture and experiences?
First of all, we Azerbaijanis
need to learn to be more business-minded, and more goal-oriented.
The Soviets created incredible opportunities in education particularly
in the fields of science, arts and music. It was a very expensive
proposition and they succeeded in achieving very high educational
and scientific levels.
But there's a significant difference between the science we did
in the former Soviet Union and the science being done in the
West. We concentrated on theoretical investigations, in other
words, science merely for the sake of science, even in fields
such as engineering. It was a terrible mistake. When our scientists
invented something, we didn't care how fast it was implemented
in industry. Our system did not have any encouraging or rewarding
mechanisms. We were paid the same amount whether we developed
anything or not. I think we should learn pragmatism from the
West. This would enable our country to advance more rapidly in
technology and enable invention to drive the economy.
When it comes to entrepreneurship, I don't believe that even
the Soviet period managed to kill our spirit. We somehow always
have had a desire for marketing. Many people used to find ways
to work for their own private interests, especially in agriculture.
This mentality eases our transition as we move from a centralized,
to a market economy.
Americans, I believe, could immensely benefit during elections
if there wasn't so much political posturing and show. There are
entirely too many attacks and intrusions into a candidate's character
and private life. Too often candidates seek to cripple and even
defame each other-at least, psychologically. It's quite unimaginable
to me how they can ever truly cooperate with each other once
the election process is over after they've acted so viciously
towards each other.
I'm also concerned about the disintegration of the family here
in the US. Twenty years ago, when I was here on scientific exchange,
families seemed quite strong to me. I'm amazed how quickly the
institution of the family has deteriorated. In Azerbaijan, we
have extremely strong family relations. Our families are the
real core of our existence and our society. I hope we Azerbaijanis
won't lose this as we begin our own economic transition. I hope,
too, that Americans will be able to re-establish and re-create
the strong family ties they once enjoyed which contribute ever
so much to a strong society and nation.
From Azerbaijan
International (4.1)
Spring 1996.
© Azerbaijan International 1996. All rights reserved.
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